villainsfandomcom-20200225-history
Talk:Stain (My Hero Academia)
Not an Anti-Villain Chizome is not an anti-villain because he kills the heroes over his views of them as being flawed and selfish. Sure, those heroes may be selfish and would only care to save the citizens for money and status but it is their job to save the people. If Chizome is going around killing the heroes (that he sees as flawed) then who will be there to stop the villains from wreaking havoc on the public? The anti-villain is a type of villain that commit crimes and acts of villainy for a greater good. Chizome's actions are based upon his bias and killing the heroes is not something that is nobel or for some greater good. His crimes will only lead to more villains appearing since there will not be any heroes there to stop them. And as of recent events, more villains are inspired to doing the same thing that Chizome does. Chizome is delusional. He thinks that killing the flawed and selfish heroes that are not like All Might would do some good for society when in fact it would cause more uproar and chaos. Dual89 Proxima (talk) 05:41, May 11, 2016 (UTC) Anti-Villain or Not Just going to repeat myself here so that we can resolve this here than on the page. I said in the previous section at the top of the talk page how he does not count but I'll emphasize here again. Stain is guided by his own perception of what he sees as heroic. He is targeting the heroes to kill them because of his personal bias and standards he has against them. He thinks by murdering and torturing the heroes that it is what will benefit the setting when it does not. His actions only succeed in lowering the number of heroes by killing them. Also, his actions inspire the villains to act out even more giving them more reasons to go against the law and cause problems. This makes it harder for the heroes to do their job. Plus, Stain, himself, never goes after the villains and to try and stop them for what they are doing. It is also worth mentioning that the heroes and the general public never acknowledges Stain's actions as beneficial at all. Instead, they all see it as a problem since he is attacking the heroes based on his standards of heroism. The heroes and the public see Stain as a chilling villain who was responsible for the heinous crimes he have committed. They do not acknowledge him for his ideals the villains acknowledges that. The villains acknowledges it and uses it so that they have a reason to commit more crimes. Dual89 Proxima (talk) 06:17, October 15, 2017 (UTC) Anti Villain Debate Alright, it's best I get this out of the way before I officially call it a night for me. So we're having this debate as to whether Stain is an anti villain or he's just your outright typical villain. Let me say right now that a lot of good points are brought up as to how he's not an anti villain, such as his perception of heroism and his actions in general. However, all of this is easily explained. First off, Stain looked up to a hero ever since he was a teen, and that hero was All Might. All Might was the sole reason that inspired him to become a hero, just like him. While Stain's perception of a hero is twisted, his ideology is aiming for a better society. He is not commiting these murderous crimes intentionally, he's well aware that his actions are indeed wrong, but he is forced to do so either way, as words were not enough to get out his message. He has no idea what the lasting effects are. He is simply hoping that society realises how today's heroes have lost their true meaning. Now, are his actions benefitting society? No, they're not, but again, that was never his intention. A good example is Joshua Joyce, where he created man made Transformers to benefit the world from any harm, only for it to unintentionally backfire on him. Second, it is true that his ideology inspires villains more than it does so for heroes. However, this is because the villains twist his ideology, looking at one aspect of it. As Shigaraki points out, villains such as Himiko Toga and Dabi look up to him, but are very off from his ideals, while Spinner's the only villain that actually acknowledges his them, hence he refused to let Magne kill Midoriya. And while the heroes in general don't agree with his actions, not all of them entirely don't understand with what he's trying to accomplish. Midoriya is one of those heroes, as he understands how Stain's living up to his ideals, not giving up on them, and acknowledges the fact that he doesn't commit his actions because he wants to, unlike Tomura Shigaraki. Midoriya respects Stain for that. In return, Stain respects Midoriya for his ideals and selflessness, as he allowed him to live and even went out of his way to save him from a Nomu that captured him. ShockwaveDude120 (talk) 07:51, October 15, 2017 (UTC) : For now, we will just talk this through. I am not going to edit the page because the back and forth edits will look like an edit war. So, we will try to resolve this here but if we still disagree I'll ask some admins (or other users) whether they agree with your point or my point and settle it like that. : I see those are some good points. While it is true the villains do twist his ideology, the villains still follow it. It still inspires them to do crime against the public. It gives them some reason to commit crimes. It is also true that he looked up to All Might and that he is severely bothered by today's heroes - which is the motivation behind his crimes. But he is doing this on his own accord. He is doing it because he feels this would be the best solution in society. And while, like you say, he does not know the full impact of his actions, his actions still empower the villains to break the law and harm the public. : I find that there is a line between Anti-Villain and Delusional. Between the two, Stain falls to the Delusional side because he believes that his actions are justified to some benefit to society. Much like Akainu from One Piece, he believes his extreme actions are what will benefit the setting when it in fact it causes a lot of suffering. Stain is not upholding the best interests of the heroes and the general public by his actions. Stain believes that his actions are in the best interest of heroes and the public. When a villain believes that they are in the right when their actions have not proven to benefit the setting of the story, that villain is delusional. : And while reviewing the criteria of Anti-Villain on the category page, it says here verbatim: "anti-villains must be constantly walking the line between staying a villain and joining the good side to qualify". From what we see in the story, Stain was an antagonist to the heroes. Not once have he joined the heroes side to stop any villain. Stain spends most of his time going after the heroes to torture or kill them. Heck, even in his last battle before getting incarcerated, he attempted to kill most of the heroes there (except Midoriya of course). He does not constantly go back and forth between the heroes's side or the villain's side. He is solely on the villain's side and he is driven by his delusions to carry out heinous crimes against the public. Dual89 Proxima (talk) 20:53, October 15, 2017 (UTC) ::: Stain is delusional, but he is not outright villainous. He does indeed believe that his actions will benefit the world that he lives in (hence his delusion), but as stated before, he is well aware of what he is doing is wrong. He dislikes mindless bloodshed, which is the main reason why he refused to join the League of Villains the first place. Again, he is not doing this out of desire, but because he is forced to do so. Also, like a delusional villain, an anti villain's cause can also be noble in their own eyes only. ::: An antagonist does not have to be a villainous character. An antagonist in general is simply a character that the protagonist is going up against. Stain is on neither side of the heroes or villains. He follows nobody but himself and his ideals. He has his own agenda. The only heroes he attempted to kill are Iida and Native. The rest of the heroes were simply heroes that he challenged them to stop him. ::: With that said, this will be my last response to this topic, as I don't want this to be an ongoing war of sorts. It's better for this to be discussed among the mods and admins and let them decide whether the character is an anti villain or not. ::: ShockwaveDude120 (talk) 01:47, October 16, 2017 (UTC) :::: This is just a discussion not a war of sorts. I only said that it was okay to do it here because its better to do it here than on the page. If we continued on the page it could of been protected on the guise of an edit war. But anyways, after this, I'll contact two admins to get their view on this. :::: You said, he is doing this because he is forced to. Which begs the question, who or what is forcing him to do what he is doing? It is not the heroes advising him to do this nor the villains. The general public would not advise him to kill the heroes either. The Anti-Villain is supposed to be the villainous version to the Antihero. Whereas the antihero lacks the traditional quality of a hero; the Anti-Villain lacks the traditional quality of a villain. Stain is taking his time to go after the heroes. His bias and standards fuels this. And given how he is so mad during his time in the story, it seems he is just taking his anger out on the heroes because they could not live up to his standards than trying to push for a better world of heroes. :::: Also, having some noble ideology or goal does not push the character to being an Anti-Villain. Any villain can have a noble ideology or goal in mind but does not count as they can be hypocritical, careless, or too heinous to live up to what they say they were about - making them delusional. But, what makes Stain delusional than anti-villainous is that he solely believes that his actions are what will make society better in the long run. And even for the noble cause, wouldn't he being doing what is in the best interest of the general public and heroes to strive for that noble cause? Wouldn't he want to uphold the best interest of the public? Stain is only focused on his personal bias which he puts above everyone else's. :::: While looking over this wiki's definition and criteria for Anti-Villain, Stain does not fit the most important part for the term which is as it says verbatim right off the page in bold letters: "anti-villains must be constantly walking the line between staying a villain and joining the good side to qualify". Stain is not walking the line between staying the villain and he has not join the good side ever. Stain never attempts to join the good side when he was a villain. Instead, Stain focuses on killing the heroes that he does not approve of than helping them. Dual89 Proxima (talk) 06:19, October 16, 2017 (UTC) I was asked to weigh in on this subject. As far as I'm concerned, Stain is a straight-up villain. Nothing "anti-" about him. --Love Robin (talk) 07:26, October 17, 2017 (UTC) Of what I read here and the little I saw he seems to just be a delusional killer not an Anti-Villain. He kills anyone who isn't his idea of a perfect hero and while some are indeed selfish he's the person who seeks to wipe out any who fails his bias standards. Does he have standards? Sure he hates mindless killing but merely having some standards doesn't necessarily equal an Anti-Villain. Jester of chaos (talk) 12:04, October 17, 2017 (UTC) Name Changing I've seen that people just want to rename a page randomly and suddenly. His real name is valid for the name of the article. I am not going to get into an edit war over a name for an article. All the reasons I have seen for it being renamed to Stain (My Hero Academia) range from simply "he is called this so just rename page" to personal preferences. Renaming a page is a major change to an article not something that is minor. I also believe for certain pages especially popular pages, people at least need to consult with other users or even admins so that there can be an agreement over changing an article name instead of suddenly taking it upon oneself to renaming it without other people's input. Chizome Akaguro is befitting for the article title since it is his real name and in the article itself he is called Chizome multiple times. But I am not going to change it, I'll leave it like it is. I guess Stain would be an okay name and this is all I have to say. Dual89 Proxima (talk) 23:16, January 4, 2018 (UTC) : Tomura Shigaraki is named Tomura Shigaraki, not Tenko Shimura. Burton's Joker is named Joker, not Jack Naiper. Darth Vader is Darth Vader, not Anakin Skywalker. Lots of villains on this wiki are named by their alias, so I don't really see the problem here. The only reason why I'm naming him this is because that's what he goes by. Everyone addresses him as either "Stain", "the Hero Killer", or "Hero Killer Stain", not by his real name. Either name works, but it makes more sense for him to be named Stain and not Chizome. ShockwaveDude120 (talk) 23:30, January 4, 2018 (UTC) :: Okay, I see. Those are some good points and I agree with you. Dual89 Proxima (talk) 03:29, January 7, 2018 (UTC) Genocidal category I removed the category because I don't remember that he is willing to destroy an entire race. Was it wrong? YukaSylvie (talk) 01:34, June 26, 2018 (UTC)